An Interview with John Robbins (Part 2)

Bringing Family Together

I: You mentioned the social aspects of food and I think it's very interesting in families, in modern culture we often do not have time to sit down to have a meal together the way we used to. So could you speak a little bit about your lifestyle choices particularly in terms of bringing together family? I know you live with three generations.

J: We do! I live with my wife of forty years and our adult son, his wife and their six-year old twins, our grand-twins. We live with three generations in one house and we get along very well. We love each other, our values are deeply compatible. I don't think this is for everybody, but it works very well in our case. We prepare most of our food. We don't eat out very much. I suppose I would if restaurants were more compatible to the food choices I want to make. We eat a very simple and healthy diet. It's totally vegetarian and we do that for the reasons I've been talking about and also because it brings us together.

In sharing food, we share time and space, we get to know each other, we're not passing by each other, we're actually engaging, connecting, and learning about one another. Therefore, we're learning about our love for each other, how we can make a difference in each other's lives and how we can support each other, how we can understand each other more fully. This is the kind of relationship building that in modern society often gets lost in the shuffle when people are so driven, they're so time-stressed, and they're so anxious frankly that they don't really connect with one another. I think we need to connect with each other and food is a wonderful medium for that. So rather than go out and eat fast food which isn't healthy for the environment, isn't healthy for us, is full of bad fats and animal ingredients that I don't want to touch, we prepare our food at home. We grow a lot of our own food in our garden; we shop at local farmer's markets, where local growers bring their produce; and we are also fortunate enough to have some natural food stores in the area which we also shop at. And we're making distinctions about what we do and don't want to put into our bodies, what we do and don't want to support in the world, in who, we in fact are, the kind of characters we're going to express by our lifestyle.

Plant-Based Foods, an Excellent Source of Protein

I: So I want to ask you about food additives and particularly in animal production; there are a lot of hormones and other additives. We practice vegetarianism but we also don't eat eggs. There used to be a feeling that it is one of the most perfect proteins. Could you speak a little about eggs and the vegan lifestyle?

J: Well, I don't eat eggs either. The idea that eggs are the perfect protein stems from rat experiments. They found that rats, baby rats, prospered when they were fed eggs, so they sort of made the assumption from that. This is originally the research. A lot has been done since, but that's how it first got started. Well it turns out that baby rats' needs are so different than a human baby's needs. Rat mother's milk is about 45% protein, a human mothers' milk is about 8% protein. So it's not a really comparable food. I look at the constituency of human breast milk as nature's answer to the question, "What is the ideal food for a human baby?" I don't look at what makes a rat grow the fastest, I look at what will help a human being thrive, and that's obviously human breast milk for a human infant.

What we've learned since in medical science is that the need for animal protein was vastly exaggerated, because many of the studies were done and funded by animal product industries - the National Dairy Council, the Egg Board, the Meat Board, the National Cattlemen's Association, a whole slew of industry groups that profit from people thinking they need to eat their products to get adequate protein.

Plant-based proteins are more than adequate, they are excellent. And they don't come along with the saturated fat, cholesterol and these other things that the animal proteins come with that do us such damage. If you want to have a lean, fit, thriving body that operates on all cylinders, gives you the most mental clarity, the most emotional serenity, gives you the most physical strength and strongest immune system, eat a plant-based diet.

You don't need eggs for protein; you don't need meat for protein. I cannot tell you how many times people have said to me, "You're a vegetarian? Where do you get your protein?" Well I get it from plants, I get it from beans, I get it from seeds and nuts, I get it from whole grains, I get it from vegetables, because I don't fill my diet with a bunch of junk food, and I don't fill my diet with a bunch of sugar, white flour and things like that. I make every calorie count. I don't have a lot of wasted empty calories in the diet that I consume. Therefore the protein percentage doesn't have to be so high.

If the calories you're eating, most of them, are junk and empty, then the few remaining ones that have any nutrition better be solid protein in order for you to get enough. But if all your foods are good, then protein comes from all the foods that you eat. You don't have to say, "There's where I get my protein." I'm getting it from all of the foods that I eat. There is good protein in whole grains, fresh vegetables and certainly in beans and in soy products.

I: So vegetarian and especially a vegan diet is a way to become, as in the title of your new book, "Healthy at 100."

J: Well yes, I've looked at cultures where people have thrived for the longest times, where they're not just champions of longevity and that they live long but they live long, healthy lives. And their elder hoods are filled with fitness, mental clarity, contribution, joy and beauty; and they almost always eat plant-based diets or very close to this.

Making the World a Better Place for All Life

I: Yeah, that's interesting. I also wanted to congratulate you on the "Shining World Leadership Award" for humanitarianism from Supreme Master Ching Hai. She was very excited and impressed with the nobility you demonstrated in walking away from what could've been a very wealthy lifestyle, in the name of your values and your choices.

J: Well I did it in the name of all of our aspirations for a humane and sustainable world. It wasn't just for me. It really was for the planet, for all of us who are striving and inspiring towards creating a spiritually fulfilling, socially just and environmentally sustainable human presence on this planet.

I: Thank you so much for your work because I've read that for a couple of years after "A Diet for a New America" came out, beef sales in the US dropped almost 20% and there's been Howard Lyman and a number of other activists that have brought out the terrors of what has gone on in the beef industry. So I think it's interesting to see the ripple effect 20 years later.

J: And I mean you can translate that 20 % reduction of beef consumption into how many fewer heart attacks occurred, how many fewer cases of cancer occurred, how much less diabetes there was. Not that these epidemics aren't still major issues, but they have been to a degree ameliorated by that reduction. You can also translate it into how many square miles of tropical rainforests are still standing that would otherwise would have been destroyed? How many species are still with us that would otherwise have been extinguished? How much less water pollution we have to deal with, how much less greenhouse gases are in our atmosphere as a result of that reduction? We're still trashing the environment, but this was a big step; and I will feel fulfilled only when it is a step that many other people take, and we continue on that path, because the day that slaughter houses are a memory, the day that world hunger is a memory, the day that environmental destruction is a memory, will be the day that I rejoice.

I: I agree with you. The members in our Association all over the world have been doing a campaign on Alternative Living, trying to bring the word to people to associate compassion with our diet choices.

J: People today are very removed from animals and if they have images, they are of family farms and animals running around on the farm. Modern meat production has become something totally institutionalized and utterly dominated by the profit motive and a true violation of the human heart's need to live in integrity with the well-being of other forms of life.

I: So one last question to you on that note is in terms of your own spiritual motivation in life. We all meditate in our Association but a lot of people have different forms of practice. What is your secret to success in spiritual harmony?

Be Tuned into the Higher Wisdom of Life

J: Well, I meditate also. I do everything I can to quiet my mind, open my heart, and to be fully present and tuned to the higher wisdom of life and to the instinct for goodness and wellness in everyone. I want to respond to it, I want to welcome it, I want to honor it. I think that there is some good in everybody and if I can look for that, then I can be a place in which their own spirit, their own joy, their own sense of contribution and gifts can come forward. Then I am happy.

I: John you walked away from a very large empire, the Baskin Robins kingdom. For the viewers that may not know Baskin Robins, it is the largest ice-cream chain in the world, more than 5,000 stores worldwide, promoting 31 flavors of ice-cream. Your father and uncle began this business and you were not a fan of ice-cream.

J: Well I was. I grew up as a child being groomed to succeed my father. I'm an only son and I don't have brothers so it was expected that I would one day follow in his footsteps. He owned and ran the world's largest ice-cream company, a multibillion dollar company. He owned it along with my uncle. My uncle died of a heart attack in his early 50's. A very large man, he ate a lot of ice-cream as we all did. When he died, I asked my dad if there could be any connection between my uncle's fatal heart attack and the amount of ice-cream that he would eat. My dad froze, looked at me, and said: "His ticker just got tired and stopped working." I saw the denial in my dad's face and I realized why he would need to block that, because he had by this time manufactured and sold more ice-cream than any other human being that's ever lived on this planet. He did not want to think that, that product was hurting anybody, much less that it might have played a role in his beloved brother-in-law and partner's death.

But the reality is that the more ice-cream you eat, the more likely you are to have a heart attack, also the more likely you are to get diabetes; and my father developed very serious diabetes. And it's not just Baskin Robins. In the United States another very large ice-cream chain is "Ben and Jerry's." Ben Cohen was the co-founder and co-owner for years and he had a quintuple bypass procedure at the age of 49. That's how ill his cardiovascular system had become, that's the level of cardiac distress he was in; and he also is a heavy set fellow who ate a lot of ice-cream.

I am not saying an ice-cream cone is going to kill anybody. But I did not want to be selling a product that the more you ate of it, the more you consumed of it, the wealthier I would be and the sicker you would be. I didn't want that on my conscience. I wanted instead to shape my life such that I could be a vehicle for a more healing and a more compassionate world. Although I was offered the opportunity to be as extraordinarily wealthy as my father is, I walked away from that entirely and I told him, "I don't want a trust fund, I don't want an inheritance, I don't want to live off of your fortune, because I want to seek my own values and I want to live completely congruent with that. I want to find my own powers and my own path in life and I want to follow the inner, the divine call that I feel. I don't know where it will lead."

I was a young man. I couldn't say to him, "Oh, I'm going to write books that are going to be nominated for Pulitzer Prizes and become best sellers. Who knew that would ever occur. I only knew that I had a commitment within myself, a conviction, and that I had to be part of making the world a better place for all of life; and selling ice-cream just didn't fit with that. So I walked away from it and I made a choice for integrity. It was not a choice my parents felt real happy about. There was an alienation as a result of it, although a lot of that's been healed in subsequent years. The reality is that although I don't have anything like the financial wealth that I would have had, you know if I had stayed with Baskin Robbins, I have an inner wealth, that comes from knowing that my life is in alignment with my heart, and I think that's priceless.

I: Thank you so much for your work.

An Interview with John Robbins (Part 1)

From Supreme Master Television, Episode 179 and 186 (Originally in English)

Today on our show, we have a very special guest. Mr. John Robbins is the bestselling author of "Diet for a New America" and his new book "Healthy at 100." John Robbins is the only son of the founder of the largest ice-cream chain in the world, Baskin Robbins. Instead of inheriting the overwhelming wealth and privilege of this ice-cream empire, Mr. Robbins chose to disavow his inheritance and become a vegan activist. He published his Pulitzer Prize nominated book, "Diet for a New America" in 1987 in order to showcase the problems of factory farming and to encourage others to follow a plant-based diet. Within five years following publication of his book, beef sales in the United States dropped by nearly 20%. Since that time, he has traveled throughout the world speaking and writing about all aspects of healthy living, including writing numerous other bestselling books. We are honored to share with you his inspiring example of healthy living. Mr. Robbins shares with us his profound thoughts and inspiration which followed the publication of his first book, "Diet for a New America." Let's now join Mr. John Robbins.


Interviewer: In "Diet for a New America," you do a very thorough research on the environmental, social and health impacts of animal production for food. Could you speak a little bit about the values in relation to our food choices, and the impact that might have on the people around us?

John: That's a great question. Most often when people buy food at the market, restaurant or the fast food store, they don't really think about it except for how much it costs and how it tastes. Maybe they think a little bit about what it's going to do to their waistlines and that's usually about it. But there are so many more consequences, from the choices we make, on our health that we don't tend to think about, and also the health of the world.

The Impact of Our Food Choices

On the environment, on the people who are involved in food production, there are social implications, there are enormous consequences to the way we as a culture eat, the way we as a community prepare our food, the way we as established individuals share our food; and I've tried to enlarge people's thinking around it, make people more aware that there is an animal involved.

For example, if you're eating meat, drinking milk, eating cheese, or any kind of animal product, there is an animal at one end of the system. What happened to that animal? How was it treated? Because modern meat production has developed in a particular way that makes for profit, for agribusiness, but it makes for enormous suffering for the animals involved. They are confined in what are called intensive conditions that often give the animals no more space than their body requires; they're in cages the size of their bodies. They would actually have more space if you stuffed them into the trunk of a sub-compact car and kept them there. They can't move at all, and that's the point. Because if the animal can't move, it can't, so to speak, waste calories in movement. So it's profitable but it's horribly cruel.

Modern factory farming is unbelievably cruel. It violates the instincts and the needs that are basic to the animal. I'm talking about cows, I'm talking about chickens, I'm talking about turkeys, and I'm talking about pigs, veal calves. All the animals that are involved in modern meat production are treated by large scale animal agriculture as if they had no needs of their own, as if they weren't living beings; they're just commodities in a supply chain. The fact that they have any kind of instinct and need for space, for movement, any kind of social needs, any kind of need, not to be in abject pain, is not part of the equation. So as consumers, we need to grasp that as the reality, and we have to ask, "Is eating products from systems like that in alignment with our values?"

If we are people who want there to be peace on Earth, we want to begin with ourselves. If we are people who want there to be less suffering in the world, then we want our lives to contribute to less suffering. If we are people who want the world to be a thriving, prosperous place for all kinds of creatures, then what are we doing to our bodies, what are we doing to the Earth, and what are we doing to the entire Earth community when we eat food that's produced in that way? I think it's a violation of the human-animal bond, I think it's a violation of our own spirits. I know it's absolutely devastating to the animals that are involved, and I can't ignore them. I can't sit down to eat and think, "Oh, it comes from the butcher," and not remember the eyes of cows I've looked into. Not remember cats and dogs I've loved and thought, "Well, why do we make this interesting distinction?"

In this culture, we tend to do this. We call some animals pets, we love them, we lavish our care on them, and we often experience that they are part of our families; it's quite beautiful actually. But then in another group of animals, we call them dinner; and by virtue of that distinction, we feel that it is acceptable to visit upon those animals any matter of cruelty as long as it lowers the price per pound. What level of distinction are we operating there? Does that line go right through our hearts and split us in two? I think so.

My work has been very much about awakening people to the reality that how animals are treated in meat production and in food production is something we need to consider if we want our food choices to be in integrity with our hearts. If we want our lives to be a statement of compassion, not cruelty, then we need to look at the choices we're making and what really are the consequences.

I: So the thing that was so beautiful about "Diet for a New America" is you presented very thorough research on the environmental impact, and the greater community that many don't think of. Can you speak a little about environmental sustainability relative to food choices because that was a very enlightening thing for me when I first read your book?

Simple Living So Others May Simply Live


J: Thank you! Many people today want to lead more Earth friendly lives or want to create lifestyles that are in harmony with the planet, that don't consume egregious levels of resources, that don't create disastrous levels of pollution. It's becoming ever more obvious that the way we've treated the atmosphere, leading to destabilization of the climate, and in many, many ways our relationship to the Earth as a culture, is completely out of balance. So people are looking for how they can seek to correct that. And it turns out that the food choices that are healthiest for our bodies that lower our cholesterol, that make us the leanest, fittest instruments to operate in, that are kindest to the other animals because they don't have the kind of cruelty that's involved in modern meat production, are also the ones that are environmentally most benign. They consume the least resources. They allow the most of these resources to be available to feed other people. Therefore, they are the most honest and effective answer we have to world hunger issues. And they are ecologically the obvious, virtuous thing to do.

I'll give you an example. It takes sixteen pounds of grain to make the average pound of feed live beef. And virtually all the grain eaten in the United States is feed live beef; and in all modern industrialized countries too. Sixteen pounds of grain to make a pound of beef, that's the feed conversion ratio. Well it only takes one pound of grain to make a pound of whole wheat bread or to prepare a pound of rice. We're wasting the other fifteen pounds. It's just basically going into manure which doesn't get used as a fertilizer because that's how the system has gone out of whack; it just becomes a pollutant in the water table. What happens when you eat lower on the food chain, you eat a more plant-based diet, you move in a vegetarian or vegan direction, you are in effect consuming far less resources, and therefore there is less water pollution, there is less air pollution, there is less soil erosion, there are fewer greenhouse gases involved.

Basically you have a lighter footprint on the planet and you are taking a step with that footprint that leads other people. We are such social creatures around our food, and when you take a step that is honoring the Earth, that's living simply so others may simply live, that's honoring all of our children's right and need to have a livable planet in the future, that's honoring all of our rights and needs to have a stable climate in the future. And you're doing that with a food choice that's also healthy for your body and that is also kinder for the animals. You're in a state of integrity and you're in a state of clarity about who you are and what you want your statement to the world to be through the way you live. And you want that to be a statement of consciousness, conscience, compassion and care. Or do you want to be like unfortunately most people in the modern world and let it be a statement merely of convenience and unfortunately that translates into indifference to the planet, to the animals and in fact, to your own health needs?

http://www.godsdirectcontact.org.tw/eng/news/181/vg_62.htm

You Can Make A Difference

If you never have been to an animal factory farm or a slaughterhouse, check these out!

Jika anda tidak pernah ke ladang kilang ternakan atau rumah sembelih, sila layari yg berikut!


The Terrible Treatment of Turkeys

The Cruel Fate of Cows

The Pititful Plight of Poultry

A Plea for Mercy for Pigs

Also visit:
Emotional World of Farm Animals

约翰．罗宾斯 先生专访 (II)

让家人同聚一堂

http://godsdirectcontact.us/sm21/gbnews/181/vg_62.htm

采访者: 您提到食物在我们社会上所代表的意义，是非常有意思的。现代的家庭，大家很少有时间坐下来，像我们以前那样一起进餐。可否请您说说您的生活方式，特别是家人团聚方面？我知道您是三代同堂。

约翰: 是的！我与结缡四十年的妻子、成年的儿子、媳妇，还有他们的六岁双胞胎--我们的孙子，三代一起住在一栋房子里，而且相处得很好。我们深爱彼此，价值观非常一致。我不认为人人都可以这样做，但我们的情况非常融洽。大部分的食物我们都是自己准备，我们不常外出进餐。假如餐厅能多提供我想要的食物，我也会出去吃。我们的饮食很简单、很健康，完全是素食的。原因我已经提过了，而且它也让我们全家团聚在一起。

分享食物时，我们也与家人分享时间和空间，相互去了解彼此，而不是像擦肩而过的路人一样。我们真的投入、联系，并相互学习。因此，我们学习了解我们对彼此的爱，学习如何对彼此的生活作出贡献、如何相互支持对方、如何更深入地了解对方。这种人际关系的建立，已在现代社会的步调中消逝，大家时间都很紧迫，并且焦虑不安，无法真正地与他人沟通。我认为我们需要彼此沟通，而食物是很好的媒介。所以与其出去吃那些对环境及身体不健康的快餐，里面满满我不想碰的有害脂肪及动物成分，我们宁可在家准备食物。我们在自己的菜园里种许多菜，也在当地的农民市集购物；当地的农夫会把自己的农作物拿出来卖。幸运的是，我们住家附近还有一些天然食物店，我们也会去那里选购。我们可以决定我们想要和不想要吃进身体的食物，决定想要或不想要帮助这个世界。事实上，我们藉由生活方式来展现我们是什么样的人。

植物性食品是蛋白质的最佳来源

采访者: 我想请问您关于食品添加物的问题，尤其是动物性食品含有大量的荷尔蒙和其它添加物。我们吃素，也不吃蛋。过去的论点认为蛋是完美的蛋白质来源之一，请谈谈您对蛋及纯素生活方式的看法？

约翰:我也不吃蛋。有关蛋是绝佳蛋白质的观念，起源于老鼠的实验。他们发现，把蛋拿来喂食幼鼠，幼鼠会长得很好，所以他们就做出如此的推论。这是最初的研究，此后又有更多的研究，不过这个观念起源于此。后来科学家才发现，幼鼠与人类婴儿所需的蛋白质是完全不同的；母鼠的奶约有百分之四十五的蛋白质，而人乳的蛋白质则只有大约百分之八，所以实在不能拿来比照。我是以母乳的成分来思考大自然对「什么是婴儿最理想的食物」这个问题所给我们的答案。我不看什么会让幼鼠快速成长，而是看什么能帮助人类茁壮。很明显地，人类婴儿应该喝母乳。

我们从现代医学得知，人体需要动物性蛋白质的说法其实是言过其实，因为许多提出这类说法的研究，是由动物性产品制造业赞助研究的，包括：美国奶制品委员会（National Dairy Council）、禽蛋委员会（Egg Board）、肉品协会（Meat Board）、美国畜牧者协会（National Cattlemen's Association），还有许多食品行业诱导人们相信，必须食用他们的产品才能获取足够蛋白质，藉以从中获利。

植物性蛋白质已经足足有余，而且是非常好的蛋白质。植物蛋白不含饱和脂肪、胆固醇等等动物蛋白所包含的有害物质。如果你想要拥有苗条、健康、全面运作良好的强壮身体，想要拥有最清晰的思路、最平稳的情绪、最佳的体力及最强健的免疫系统，就必须采行素食。

你不必吃蛋来摄取蛋白质，不必为了蛋白质吃肉。有不胜枚举的人问我这个问题︰「你是素食者吗？你从哪里摄取蛋白质？」我从植物中摄取，从豆类、种子、坚果、全谷食物和蔬菜中摄取，因为我没有吃一堆垃圾食物，我没有吃一堆由糖或白面粉做成的食物，我让自己摄取的每一卡热量都发挥功效，而没有吃许多无用的垃圾食物，因此对我而言，蛋白质占有的比率不必太高。

如果你的饮食中大多数是垃圾食物，那么其它少数食物中就必须含有完整的蛋白质，以便获得足够的营养。但如果你吃的食物都对身体有益，那么这些食物就可以提供足够的蛋白质，你就不必特别说︰「我吃某种食物以获取蛋白质。」我从我吃的各种食物中获取蛋白质，在全谷食物和新鲜蔬菜里有好的蛋白质，当然在豆类及黄豆产品也有丰富的蛋白质。

采访者: 所以大家应该改吃素食，特别是不含蛋奶的纯素饮食，就像您的新书《健康壹百岁》的标题一样。

约翰:没错，我观察了一些长寿民族的文化，在那些地方，人们不仅长寿，而且活得健康。他们年老时仍然身体健康、头脑清晰、具有奉献及欢喜心，并且美丽，而他们几乎都长期吃素，或几近吃全素。

为众生创造一个更美好的世界

采访者: 是，这是有趣的现象。我要恭喜您荣获清海无上师颁发的「全球优秀领导奖」，表彰您对人道主义的贡献。您基于个人的价值观和选择，放弃非常富裕的生活，您所展现的高雅行谊，令她十分欣喜且印象深刻。

约翰:我这么做，是希望能建立一个永续发展的人道世界。那并非只为我个人，而是为了我们的星球、为了我们每个人，我们努力在这星球为人类创造一个充满灵性、社会正义的世界，以及建立一个让全人类能永续生存的环境。

采访者: 十分感激您所做的贡献，我知道当您的书《新世纪饮食》出版几年后，美国的牛肉销售减少了将近二成，而且霍华．李曼（Howard Lyman）和其它动物保育人士也揭发牛肉业的可怕内情。我认为二十年后还能见到这个涟漪效应，真是有意思。

约翰: 你可以换算看看牛肉消费量降低二成后，可使心脏病病例减少多少？可使癌症病例减少多少？可使罹患糖尿病的人数减少多少？并非这些疾病已不再构成威胁，而是减少牛肉的消费量后，这些病症的发生率已经降低到某种程度。你也可以换算看看，由于这些成果，让多大面积的热带雨林保留了下来？要不然，它们可能已经遭到破坏了。由于这些成果，让多少物种存活了下来？要不然，他们可能早已绝种了。减少牛肉消费，我们必须处理的水污染问题减少了多少？温室效应气体又减少了多少？人们依然在破坏环境，不过这是重要的一步，如果其它人也这么做，我会觉得很满足。然后我们在这个道路上继续努力，直到有一天屠宰场成为记忆，世界饥荒、环境破坏都成为记忆，那就是我最高兴的时候了。

采访者: 我同意。我们世界会全球的会员都在推动「您也可以选择这样的生活」，努力传播讯息，鼓励人们选择爱心的饮食方式。

约翰: 今天的人类和动物很疏远。如果人们对动物仍有印象，他们的印象通常还停留在一些家庭式的农场，农场内有动物在四处奔跑。然而现在的肉品生产已经完全变成制度化经营，完全由利润动机所支配，而且真正违背了人类衷心想与世界其它众生和谐共存并照顾其福祉的愿望。

采访者: 我想请教您的最后一个问题，是关于您个人灵修的动力。我们世界会的会员都有打坐。许多人有不同的修行方法，请问您获得灵性和谐的秘诀为何？

与更高的生活智慧合一

约翰:我也有打坐。我用各种方式让心静下来，打开我的心灵，使我完全融入更高的生活智慧，并与人人具有的良善健全的本性合一。我想去体现这个本能，我要迎接它、荣耀它。我认为每个人都有善良的本质，如果能够加以发掘，就可以让他们的灵性、他们的喜悦、他们奉献的心和天赋呈现出来，如此我就会很高兴。

采访者: 约翰，您放弃了巴斯金．罗宾斯庞大的企业王国。许多观众可能不知道，巴斯金．罗宾斯是全球最大的冰淇淋连锁企业，在全世界有五千多家连锁店，提供三十一种口味的冰淇淋，风行全世界。令尊和您的姨丈开创这个事业，然而您却对冰淇淋没兴趣。

约翰:是，我从小就一直被灌输将来要继承父业。我是独子，没有兄弟，所以大家都期待有朝一日，我会跟随他的脚步。他拥有并经营全球最大的冰淇淋企业，这是一家营收数十亿美元的企业，他和我的姨丈共同拥有这家公司。我姨丈在五十出头时就因为心脏病往生。他长得很高大，和我们一样吃了很多冰淇淋。他往生时，我问我父亲说，姨丈因心脏病而死，这是否和他吃了很多冰淇淋有关联？我父亲脸色僵硬地看着我说：「他的心脏累了，所以不再跳动了。」看到父亲否认的表情，我了解为什么他要否认，因为当时他所生产和销售的冰淇淋，在全世界无人能出其右。他不愿去想他的产品会伤害别人的健康，更不愿去想那些产品会成为他挚爱的妹婿兼事业合伙人的死因。

但事实上，你吃越多冰淇淋，就越可能得到心脏病，也越可能罹患糖尿病。我父亲就有严重的糖尿病。不仅是巴斯金．罗宾斯企业，美国另一家很大的冰淇淋连锁企业「班和杰瑞公司」（Ben and Jerry's），它的其中一位创办人兼合伙人班．柯汉（Ben Cohen）拥有这个企业多年，但是他在四十九岁时就施行心血管绕道手术，而且是五条血管的手术，由此可见他的心脏、血管的病情多么严重。他也是体格魁伟，吃了很多冰淇淋。

我并不是说吃了几球冰淇淋就会致命，但是我不要卖一种你吃越多、我就越富有，而你却越生病的产品，我的良知不要我这么做。我反而想要规划自己的生涯，使自己成为让世人更健康、更有爱心的工具。尽管我有机会成为像我父亲一样的巨富，但我完全放弃了，我告诉他：「我不要信托基金，我不要继承产业，我不要靠你的财富过活，因为我要寻找自己的价值，而且我要完全过着符合这种理念的生活。我想要发掘自己的能力和寻找自己生命的道路，而且我要跟随内在神圣的召唤，虽然我不知道我将被引领至何方。」

当时我还年轻，无法告诉他︰「喔，我要写一本可以获得普立兹奖提名又非常畅销的书。」没人知道会发生这些事。我仅知道我对自己承诺，心中有个信念：必须尽一己之力，为众生创造一个更美好的世界。销售冰淇淋并不符合这样的自我期许，所以我放弃了这个事业，而选择忠于自己。这不是我父母期待的选择，因此造成父母和我之间的疏离，但往后几年我们之间的关系改善了许多。如果我选择留在巴斯金．罗宾斯企业，我会拥有许多财富；虽然我的选择让我失去金钱财富，但我拥有内在的财富，因为我知道我的生活与信念一致，我认为这是无价的。

采访者: 非常感谢您的贡献。

约翰．罗宾斯 先生专访

今天在我们节目中有一位非常特别的来宾，那就是约翰．罗宾斯先生（John Robbins），他是畅销书《新世纪饮食》（Diet for a New America）及刚出版的新书《健康壹百岁》（Healthy at 100）的作者，也是全球最大的冰淇淋连锁店巴斯金．罗宾斯（Baskin Robbins）的创办人之独子。然而罗宾斯先生并没有继承冰淇淋王国的庞大财富与殊荣，反而选择放弃继承权，成为一位素食主义的倡导者。1987年，他出版了荣获普立兹奖（Pulitzer Prize）提名的著作《新世纪饮食》，揭露工厂化养殖农场的问题，并鼓励大家采行素食的饮食方式。这本书出版后的五年内，美国的牛肉销售量下滑了将近百分之二十。从那时起，他奔走世界各地发表演说，并撰写许多畅销的著作，全方位探讨如何过健康的生活。我们很荣幸与您分享他这种激励人心的健康生活方式。罗宾斯先生要和我们分享他在第一本书《新世纪饮食》出版后的一些深刻见解与发人深省的观点，我们一起来欢迎罗宾斯先生。

采访者: 在《新世纪饮食》一书中，您深入探讨了荤食对环境、社会与健康的影响。可否请您谈谈食物选择的重要性，及其对我们周遭的人所产生的影响？

约翰: 这是很好的问题。通常人们在市场、餐厅或快餐店购买食物时，只会考虑到价格和味道，不会想到其它方面；或许他们还会考虑一下食物对腰围有什么影响，通常就只有这样。但事实上，我们对食物的选择，会严重影响我们的健康、影响地球的健全，这些后果通常都被我们所忽略。

食物选择所产生的影响

食物选择对环境、对食物生产者都会产生影响，这又牵涉到许多社会因素，包括：我们的饮食文化、地方性烹调食物的方法、我们与他人分享食物的方式等，都会造成深远的影响。我一直设法扩大人们对这些问题的思考层面，让大家更意识到必须顾及动物的立场。

比方说，当你吃肉、喝牛奶、吃奶酪或任何种类的动物产品时，这些东西都牵涉到动物，那些动物会有什么样的遭遇？他们是怎么被对待的？因为现代肉品制造业一直朝营利、企业化经营的方向发展，但也带给动物巨大的痛苦。在所谓的集约农场，动物被关在狭小的地方，不给他们任何活动的空间；他们被关在仅能容身的笼子里，事实上如果把他们塞在迷你型汽车后面的行李厢内，或许还有多一点空间。他们完全无法活动，这就是问题所在，因为动物如果无法活动，就表示他们不会消耗热量，农场就有更多利润，但这种方式实在太残忍了！

现代工厂化养殖农场的残忍情况令人难以置信，它违反了动物的基本需求与本能。我讲的不只是牛，还包括鸡、火鸡、猪和小牛等等，大规模养殖农场的肉品生产对这些动物的需求完全视而不见，就好像他们不是活的众生一样，只是食物生产链上的商品。事实上，他们也有本能，也需要活动空间，也有社交需求及其它各种需求，他们不是生来就该受苦的，不能把他们当作经济学定律的元素看待。所以消费者必须认清事实，必须扪心自问︰「食用这种以残忍方式生产的食品，是否符合我们的价值观？」

如果我们想要世界和平，就要从自身做起。如果我们想要世界上的苦难减少，我们的生活就不能造成众生痛苦。如果我们想让世界成为一个万物欣欣向荣的地方，然而我们摄取的食物，其生产方式却与这个理想背道而驰，这样对我们自己的身体、地球及整个世界又有什么意义？我认为这是违反人类与动物间相互依存的关系，违背我们自己的灵性。我知道荤食会给农场动物带来完全的毁灭，而我无法坐视不理。我无法一面吃一面想：「喔，这些是跟肉贩买来的。」而忘了我曾注视过的牛的眼神，忘了我所爱的猫、狗，以及心中曾有的疑问：「为何我们对动物有这么奇怪的差别待遇？」

然而在我们的文化里，我们却倾向于这么做。我们把一些动物当成「宠物」，爱他们、宠他们，觉得他们是家中的一分子，这样其实是很美好的。但是有另一群动物，我们却把他们当成「晚餐」，而这种划分使我们觉得，只要每一磅的价格能降低一点的话，任何残忍对待他们的方式都是可以接受的。我们使用的划分方式是根据什么道理呢？这种区别会不会使我们的良心分裂成两半？我认为会。

我的工作主要就是唤醒人们去认清动物在肉品制造及食物生产过程中如何被残酷对待的事实。如果我们希望我们的饮食方式与我们的爱心一致，这些就是我们需要深思之处。如果我们希望我们的生活充满慈悲而非残忍，就需要审视自己对饮食的选择，以及实际产生的结果。

采访者: 所以《新世纪饮食》一书最精采的地方就是，您就饮食选择对环境的冲击以及对社会层面的影响，提出非常精辟的探讨，这些层面许多人都不曾想过。可以请您谈谈食物的选择与环境永续性之间的关系吗？当我第一次读您的书时，这方面的见解让我觉得非常具有启发性。


罗宾斯先生致赠《新世纪饮食》与《健康壹百岁》
两本着作给师父

生活简单，利益众生

约翰: 谢谢！现在有许多人想过着更环保的生活，或是想创造一种与地球和谐共处的生活方式，不再挥霍资源，不再制造污染、带来灾害。很显然地，我们对待环境的方式造成了气候的不稳定，使我们在许多方面与地球的关系完全失去平衡。所以人们在寻找补救的方法，最后发现选择素食对我们的身体才是最健康的，能降低胆固醇又能让我们体态轻盈健美，而且没有现代化肉品生产的残酷制造过程，所以是善待动物的表现，同时也是对环境最有利的选择。素食消耗的资源最少，保留了大部分资源，让其它人的粮食不虞匮乏，这才是解决世界饥荒最实际、最有效的方法，显然也符合环保理念、符合道德规范。

举例来说，平均每生产一磅牛肉需要消耗十六磅的榖粮来喂养牛只；几乎美国所有的榖粮都拿来喂养牛只，而且所有的现代化工业国家都是如此。十六磅榖粮换来一磅牛肉，这是饲料与产出的转换率，但是只要一磅榖粮就能得到一磅的全麦面包或一磅的米饭，所以我们浪费了十五磅榖粮。这十五磅榖粮基本上变成了牛粪，而且没有用来作为肥料，这就是这套生产系统的弊病。这些牛粪只会变成地下水的污染源。但是如果你吃食物链底层的食物，饮食尽量以蔬果为主，尽量改为素食者，那么消耗的资源会大幅减少，也比较不会造成水源污染、空气污染、土壤侵蚀，并减少温室气体的排放。

基本上素食的饮食方式比较不会为地球带来冲击，而你的榜样也会引导别人往正确的方向走。人类是群居的生物，而食物是不可缺少的，当你跨出爱护地球的这一步，也就是过简单的生活，那么其它人就能生存，同时尊重后代子孙的权利与需求，让他们将来有一个可以依存的星球，也尊重我们自己的权利与需求，让未来有个稳定的气候。只要选择正确的饮食就可以达到这些目的，这不仅有益身体健康，也是爱心对待动物的表现。你让自己成为真实不虚的人，你清楚了解自己是谁，借着你的生活方式，为世人带来启示。你是希望自己意识清楚，有良知、有慈悲爱心，或者不幸地，你宁可像现代大多数人一样，只是贪图方便，对世界和动物漠不关心，对自己的健康需求也毫不在意？

http://godsdirectcontact.us/sm21/gbnews/181/vg_62.htm

Ex-cattle farmer says no to meat

Cattle-farmer-turned-vegan Harold Brown gives a talk entitled "Animal Killer to Animal Advocate," sponsored by the Dartmouth Animal Welfare Group.

Photo: Tiffany Ho/The Dartmouth Staff

Former beef cattle farmer and mechanic Harold Brown decided to become a vegetarian after learning the word from a bumper sticker on the back of a car that he repaired. The slogan read, "I don't eat my friends," and after asking the vehicle's owner what the sticker meant, Brown further investigated and gained an appreciation for the concept of vegetarianism.

"I had gone four years to Michigan State University. I don't think I was that stupid, but I had never heard that word. I hooked up with some people in Cleveland, found out what these funny v-words meant, and started making changes in my diet. My health improved," Brown said.

Brown, who now works for Farm Sanctuary, a shelter for farm animals in upstate New York, spoke about his personal experience with animals and the benefits of vegetarianism to Dartmouth students on Monday evening in the Rockefeller Center. The lecture, titled "Animal Killer to Animal Advocate" was sponsored by the Dartmouth Animal Welfare Group and the Council on Student Organizations. The animal welfare club also invited a speaker from People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals to speak on vegeterianism earlier this term.

Brown first began making changes to his diet after learning that his blood pressure and family history dictated a need for an alteration in his lifestyle. Without a change in his diet, doctors predicted that he would need bypass surgery by the time he turned 35. Brown responded by giving up red meat, cutting back on dairy products and increasing his intake of lean, white meats.

Brown's decision to stop eating beef while still working and eating on his grandfather's cattle farm caused a tension between him and his family members. Life became so stressful that Brown and his wife moved to Cleveland, Ohio, where he saw the bumper sticker that drastically changed his habits. He became a vegetarian, and after one year, switched to a completely vegan diet. After a few years on this regime, Brown is virtually safe from heart attacks.

"I realized that if I wanted to do what is optimal for this organism that I live in, I needed to be vegan," Brown explained.

During the question and answer session, Brown corrected students' misconceptions about his vegan lifestyle, addressing the overly stressed importance of protein in America.

"In America, it comes down to an argument between the big three — beef, fish or chicken," Brown stated. "We eat 5-10 times more protein in this country than we need to."

He argued that while protein rebuilds tissue, carbohydrates, which are found in abundance in plant products, are what supply humans with energy.

He attributed the high rates of heart disease, diabetes and cancer in the United States to excessive consumption of pathogen- and hormone-filled meat.

"Of all the cancers, the ones that have grown the fastest in the last 30 years besides the ones from smoking are hormone cancers," Brown said. "We're eating stuff that has a lot of hormones in it already. They just don't tell you."

A vegan diet has proven to be both beneficial and cost-effective for Brown. His discovery of plant-based ethnic cuisine from countries such as Ethiopia and India and his exploration of different varieties of vegetables has expanded both his spice rack and palette.

Brown also discovered that money can be saved by buying fruits and vegetables instead of meat, reputing the myth that a vegan spends more money on food than a meat-eater.

"On average, steaks start at $2.99 per pound and up, whereas a five pound bag of apples will cost you about four bucks," Brown explained.

Prior to his speech, Brown showed his audience an excerpt from the documentary Peaceable Kingdom, a film that chronicles the stories of farmers who left the agricultural industry to pursue the ethical treatment of animals. The film features numerous interviews with Brown, and the third edition is slated for release this summer.

By Brook Jackling,
Published on Tuesday, March 06, 2007

Book review - Diet For A New America (好书推荐 － 新世纪饮食)

Book review - Diet For A New America
好书推荐 － 新世纪饮食

If you care about your health and the environment, yet are confused as how your diet is going to affect you and your children；or after reading so much hazardous effect of meat-based diet, you may wish to change to a plant-based diet but still have doubts, then please go and get a copy of this book - DIET FOR A NEW AMERICA written by John Robbins, all the answers are there.

You can get the English version from MPH book stores, and the Chinese version from Popular book stores or from most of the book stores in Malaysia. If you are lucky and you don't mind reading secondhand book, you may find one with half the price or less in the Pay Less book stores. You can also get a copy from Lapis Lazuli Light Centre in Klang tel : 03-51625911 (open on Sat & Sun only) or from www.amazon.com, that's for sure !

You will have no regret reading this book, for your own sake, and for the sake of your family, your country and your only home - our Planet Earth !

如果您关心自己和大环境的健康，却很混淆饮食方式怎么会影响您和您的下一代，或者在读了那么多有关肉食习惯所引起的不良后果后，很想转变去蔬食可还是有所怀疑，那请即刻去书局买本约翰罗宾写的书：《新世纪饮食》吧，所有的答案都在里面。

MPH 书局有售卖英文本，大众书局则有中文本，在马来西亚的一般书局均可以找得到；如果你不介意用二手书，幸运的话，可能在 PAY LESS 书局以一半或更便宜的价钱买到。你也肯定可以在巴生的琉璃光中心 电话 ：03－51625911（只在星期六和星期天开放〕或 上网在亚马逊网站 购得。

为了您本身着想，还有您的家人，您的国家，还有您这一生唯一的家 － 我们的地球，您决不会后悔阅读这本好书。

John Robbins John Robbins is the author of the internationally best-selling Diet for a New America. How Your Food Choices Affect Your Health, Happiness, and the Future of Life on Earth. Considered to be one of the world's leading experts on the dietary link to the environment and health, he is the founder of EarthSave International, a nonprofit organization that supports healthy food choices, preservation of the environment, and a more compassionate world. Many of the nation's leading authorities in health and ecology have called his work among the most important of the century.

The recipient of the 1994 Rachel Carson Award, John Robbins's life and work have been featured in an hour-long PBS special entitled Diet for a New America.

An eloquent spokesperson for a healthy and sustainable future, he has received standing ovations at thousands of conferences and speaking engagements worldwide, including the United Nations. John Robbins lives with his family in Santa Cruz, California.
约翰罗宾是这本国际畅销书 －新世纪饮食的作者。内容细说饮食选择将如何影响你的健康，快乐，和未来地球的生命，是全球其中一位率先把饮食和环境与健康的关系连贯在一起的著名专家，他也是EarthSave International 的发起人， 一个支持健康饮食生活方式，环境保护和慈悲世界的非营利组织。许多国家的健康和生态保护领导单位视他的付出为本世纪极为重要的贡献。

身为1994年雷切尔·卡森奖的得主，约翰罗宾的生活和贡献曾经在公共电视网站被介绍过，那是一辑约一个小时，主题为《新世纪饮食》的节目。

对于健康和未来永续发展课题流畅的演讲，使他赢得了数千场全球性的会议和演讲邀约，包括联合国在内。约翰罗宾和家人居住在加利福尼亚州的圣克鲁斯县。